The Pennhurst Asylum

[00:00:00] Hi there, and welcome to Out There: A Cryptid Podcast. I'm Josh, and today we're exploring one of the most haunted locations in America. A place with such a dark history, you'll be left asking, are there really ghosts here? Or is it traumatic energy replaying over and over? This is the Pennhurst Asylum. Let's dive in.

[00:00:55] Before we get into the episode, I wanted to tell you all about next week's Weird Club. We'll be joined by one of the writers and creators, and a cast member of The Yellow Wallpaper, a new stage adaptation of the classic story by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. The show recently played off-Broadway, and is now headed to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival. We are going to talk about the journey of creating a brand new production, what it's like taking a show to one of the biggest theater festivals in the world,

[00:01:24] and some of the unexplained experiences they've encountered throughout rehearsals. So make sure you come back next week for that one, because it's a really awesome conversation. We'll get into the Pennhurst Asylum right after this. Pros trust the Home Depot for heavy-duty storage solutions for any job site or garage. Right now, get up to 15% off select storage and organization. Impact and water-resistant totes and shelving built to hold up to 2,500 pounds.

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[00:02:48] But under all of that dirt and rubble, there's a long history of neglect, abuse, and deep sadness that many believe had made this place such a haunted location. Pennhurst's story begins in the early 1900s, when America's understanding of developmental disabilities, epilepsy, and neurological disorders was very different than it is today.

[00:03:13] Construction started in 1903 on a sizable campus on more than 600 acres of land known as Crab Hill. But unlike many of the massive asylums being built around the country, Pennhurst was designed using what was called the Cottage Plan. Instead of housing everyone in one enormous building, the campus was made up of smaller brick buildings spread across the property.

[00:03:41] There were separate buildings for boys and girls. There were dining halls, classrooms, and even a laundry facility, and a school. The campus was so large it had to have its own power plant. So, the institution was intended to operate almost like its own self-contained town. When it opened, it was known as the Eastern Pennsylvania State Institution for the Feeble-Minded and Epileptic.

[00:04:09] Its whole purpose was to house and care for people with intellectual disabilities, epilepsy, and developmental disorders. At least, that was what it was supposed to be. Almost from the very beginning, Pennhurst faced a huge problem. Because it had been designed to house around 500 residents. But demand quickly grew.

[00:04:32] Within just a few years, the population had grown far greater than what the campus had been built to support. A huge reason for this growth was the rise of the eugenics movement in the United States. Eugenics was the belief that certain traits, illnesses, and disabilities were hereditary. And that society could be improved by preventing those individuals from reproducing.

[00:04:59] Today, the movement is widely recognized as pseudoscience. But at the time, it had the support of politicians, doctors, academics, and public officials across the country. Institutions like Pennhurst became viewed not as hospitals or schools, but as places where society's most vulnerable people could be separated from the outside world.

[00:05:26] Families were encouraged and sometimes pressured to send relatives to facilities like Pennhurst with promises of education, treatment, and specialized care. But for many residents, what was supposed to be helpful became literally the opposite.

[00:05:48] And to make it worse, instead of this being a temporary place to learn and aid these individuals, it turned into permanent containment. As the years went on, Pennhurst's mission slowly began to change. And by the middle of the 20th century, thousands of residents lived on a campus originally designed for only a fraction of that number.

[00:06:12] The dormitories became overcrowded and the resources became stretched very thin. And that is when the conditions inside the institution began to deteriorate. It was around this time, in the 1920s, that the institution was renamed Pennhurst State School and Hospital. The name by which it would eventually become infamous.

[00:06:36] As the population inside Pennhurst continued to grow, children and adults were often housed together, regardless of age or ability. Staff members who were already stretched thin were now responsible for dozens of residents at a time, making individualized care virtually impossible.

[00:06:58] The overcrowding became so severe that some residents reportedly slept on mattresses laid directly on the floors, because there weren't enough beds to go around. Hygiene and sanitation began to suffer as well, and former residents and investigators would later describe unsanitary living conditions and inadequate bathing facilities.

[00:07:22] Residents who became disruptive or difficult to manage were sometimes subjected to restraints or prolonged isolation. And all while families had been promised education and the specialized care, many residents instead spent their days working unpaid jobs throughout the campus. They worked in the laundry facilities, kitchens, farms, and maintenance departments that helped keep Pennhurst running.

[00:07:52] The institution that had been built to care for its residents had now begun to mistreat them and use them to literally run the place. And as the decades went on, that situation didn't improve. It deepened. Pennhurst continued to grow past what it was designed for, and by the middle of the 20th century, it shifted into something very different from what it was originally meant to be.

[00:08:20] And life inside the institution became routine in the worst possible way. Now, it is important to note that complaints did exist. Families did raise concerns, and there were occasional reports and warnings about conditions inside Pennhurst. But for years, those concerns rarely led to meaningful change. The system remained basically closed off from public view.

[00:08:48] And what was happening inside stayed inside. That is, until 1968. That year, investigative journalist Bill Baldini entered Pennhurst with a television crew and filmed what life inside the institution actually looked like. What he captured would later air on television titled, Suffer the Little Children.

[00:09:15] And it would force the public to finally confront what had been happening behind Pennhurst doors for decades. Baldini was a reporter for WCAU-TV in Philadelphia. He had a reputation for covering difficult, often uncomfortable stories that other outlets tended to avoid.

[00:09:37] So in the late 1960s, Baldini began receiving concerns and reports about conditions inside Pennhurst State School and Hospital. These tips came from families, advocates, and insiders that were raising questions about the overcrowding, neglect, and the treatment of residents inside state institutions as a whole. But what made Pennhurst different was how little the public actually knew.

[00:10:05] Because these facilities were largely closed off from outside view. And what happened inside them was rarely seen or questioned in any real detail. So Baldini decided to investigate. Now, getting inside Pennhurst with a camera crew was not normal at the time. Again, these were state-run institutions and access was tightly controlled.

[00:10:31] But Baldini and his team were eventually granted permission to enter the facility and document what they saw. Once inside, they began filming conditions that many viewers had never imagined existed in a public institution in the United States. A question that comes up from this is why were Baldini and his team allowed in at all? And part of it was the public pressure was beginning to grow.

[00:11:01] And in many cases, officials didn't fully anticipate just how disturbing the conditions would appear to an outside audience. Because it was, unfortunately, so normalized to them. Whatever the reasoning, permission was granted. And once inside, Baldini and his crew began filming what life looked like there.

[00:11:25] The series aired over five nights in 1968 on WCAU-TV in Philadelphia. The footage showed things like the overcrowded wards, residents sitting or wandering through day rooms with little to no supervision, and the children and adults housed together. It also showed some individuals confined to cribs or even tied down with restraints

[00:11:50] because there simply weren't enough staff to care for everyone safely. In one of the most repeated clips from the coverage, Baldini made it clear that what viewers were seeing was not an exception, but the reality inside Pennhurst. This was everyday life inside there.

[00:12:13] And for audiences watching at home, most which had never seen inside a state institution before, the reaction was immediate. And after the series aired, Pennhurst became a public controversy. The reaction to the footage didn't immediately shut Pennhurst down, but it changed everything. For the first time, people outside the institution were seeing what life inside actually looked like.

[00:12:43] And that attention eventually led to legal action. In 1974, a class action lawsuit was filed against Pennhurst, arguing that the conditions inside were not just unacceptable, but unconstitutional. The case focused on the fact that residents had a right to proper care and to live in the least restrictive environment possible.

[00:13:09] And what was happening inside Pennhurst was actually causing harm instead of helping. And as investigators and the lawsuits began peeling back the layers of what had happened inside there, one name kept appearing over and over again. Dr. Jesse G. Fear. And yes, that's his real name. Very fitting.

[00:13:38] Dr. Fear served as one of the physicians at Pennhurst during some of the institution's darkest years, and became one of the most controversial figures associated with its history. Because what makes his story so disturbing is that many of the things he was accused of weren't hidden. Some of them he openly discussed. One of the practices Dr. Fear described was something known as downgrading.

[00:14:05] If a resident was considered disruptive or difficult to manage, they could be removed from their normal ward and placed in units housing residents with much more severe disabilities as a form of punishment. Because, according to Dr. Fear himself, the goal was to, quote,

[00:14:30] Dr. Fear also openly discussed using what he described as, quote, The most painful injection available. And that it would cause physical harm as a punishment for residents who misbehaved. Dr. Fear also described as, quote, He recalled times when he really watched patients in agony. Now, these comments shocked many people who heard them.

[00:14:57] Not only because of what was being described, but because he was discussing them so casually. Stories have circulated for years that Dr. Fear was involved in human experimentation and other abuses tied to the eugenics movement. But many of the more specific claims about the experimentation are difficult to verify since they have become intertwined with more urban legends.

[00:15:24] The bad news is, Dr. Fear was only suspended for 30 days without pay following an incident involving the administration of dangerous drugs to patients. But he was acquitted of criminal charges related to that case and never faced significant legal consequences for the practices that became associated with his name. But, over time, the courts looked deeper into the institution.

[00:15:54] And what they found backed up a lot of the Dr. Fear claims and the mistreatment claims. And there was testimony suggesting that many people were not improving inside Pennhurst at all, but really getting worse. The ruling eventually did side with the plaintiffs, so not Pennhurst, and pushed for a shift away from large state institutions and toward community-based care.

[00:16:22] But, Penthurst didn't just close right away. It slowly started to wind down. Residents were moved out over time into smaller facilities and community homes through the late 70s and 80s. And Penthurst officially closed in 1987.

[00:16:44] But, even with the doors closing for good, Penthurst started to develop a new kind of reputation and public image. More on the Pennhurst Asylum, right after this. This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle Woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is. Until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle.

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[00:18:11] And over the years, Pennhurst developed a reputation as one of the most haunted locations, not just in Pennsylvania, but in the entire United States. Just to quickly note, after sitting abandoned for more than two decades, the historic Pennhurst State School and Hospital Campus officially reopened as a commercial haunted attraction in September of 2010.

[00:18:38] With this reopening, the site was also rebranded and renamed Pennhurst Asylum. And this was when major reports began pouring in from people claiming to hear voices echoing through the hallways, footsteps coming from vacant floors, doors opening and closing on their own. There were even claims of hearing children laughing in buildings.

[00:19:05] But the classic paranormal claims don't stop there. Some visitors report feeling like they are being watched. Others claim to experience sudden cold spots, unexplained touches, or even seeing shadow figures moving through the darkness before just disappearing around corners. But there are a handful of stories and certain spirits that continue to come up again and again whenever people talk about Pennhurst.

[00:19:34] The first spirit we have to talk about is probably the most famous apparition there. She is known as the little girl of Quaker Hall. Quaker Hall is usually considered the epicenter of paranormal activity on the campus. Most describe her as having long dark hair and being around eight or nine years old.

[00:19:57] There's been a variety of different sightings of her, but usually she is seen darting across hallways, standing silently at the far end of a corridor before just disappearing, or even peeking around corners and doorways. Teams have also reported hearing children's laughter and whispers echoing through the building, and even the sound of light footsteps running down hallways.

[00:20:23] Some of the most common pieces of evidence related to this spirit are in the form of EVPs, or electric voice phenomena. Multiple investigative teams have captured voices that sound like a child saying things like, I'm scared, and don't touch me. But, not every encounter with a little girl has happened inside Quaker Hall.

[00:20:47] One story that has circulated online for years comes from a Reddit user, Goddess Lizzie, who claimed to have worked at the Pennhurst haunted attraction after the institution had closed. According to their sighting, they were working in the tunnels beneath the administration building, in an area that is now part of the containment attraction.

[00:21:09] They had stepped in to let another employee go on their break, and then was completely alone in a long hallway filled with fake fog. The only things in the space were a few old gurneys and wheelchairs sitting in the darkness. After only a few minutes, they suddenly felt what they described as a hug or tug on the back of their shirt, and it made them stumble backwards.

[00:21:37] So they immediately spun around expecting to find another employee messing with them, but there was no one there. When their co-worker returned from break, they explained what had happened, and the co-worker simply said, There's a little girl who loves to play with us. The employee said that staff members believed the spirit was somehow connected to one of the old gurneys stored in the tunnels beneath the building.

[00:22:05] Of course, this could all be the same spirit of the little girl, or it could be multiple. It's hard to say, but she definitely isn't the only famous spirit haunting these halls. But staying in the Quaker building, there's another famous spirit associated with the place that is arguably way scarier than the little girl.

[00:22:27] Over the years, multiple visitors and paranormal teams have described seeing what has become known as the hunched man. Unlike the little girl, this figure isn't usually described as running through hallways or peeking around corners, but instead, witnesses describe seeing a dark figure standing silently in the distance,

[00:22:51] often bent over at an unnatural angle, with unusually long arms hanging toward the floor. Some claim to have seen him standing motionless at the end of hallways or in doorways before disappearing moments later. Other reports that came up out of the Quaker building are more physical reports.

[00:23:17] Multiple paranormal teams have reported being scratched, shoved, grabbed, or feeling hands brushing against them, despite nobody else being nearby. One of the most commonly repeated stories involves an investigator who claims they were shoved from behind, hard enough to leave a bruise on their back. Others have left the building with scratches appearing on their arms or shoulders that they insist weren't there when they entered.

[00:23:46] But of course, these two aren't the only famous spirits of this haunted location. Witnesses describe a woman in an old-fashioned nurse's uniform moving quietly through the hallways of the Limerick building. She's usually seen walking with purpose, sometimes standing near doorways or pausing at the end of corridors before just disappearing when you approach.

[00:24:13] Now, unlike some of the more aggressive or interactive entities reported at Pennhurst, the nurse is often described as distant. And over the years, the story of the nurse has grown far beyond individual sightings.

[00:24:30] Because some versions of the story even claim that firefighters, police officers, and other emergency personnel have encountered the figure while on site during later years of the property's use. The thing is, even though this is a repeated, very often, there is not a single documented incident or report or even interview that confirms those specific sightings.

[00:24:59] So it appears to be one of those Pennhurst stories that grew through repetition rather than a single event. But still, the image remains consistent. A nurse in the Limerick building, walking the halls long after patients and staff are gone. Now, there is one more heavily reported spirit of these buildings. His name is Mr. King.

[00:25:26] Unlike the other figures reported around the property, Mr. King isn't usually described as something you see clearly. Instead, people talk about a presence that seems to exist in the lower levels of the Mayflower building. It's more of a feeling that sets in the moment you step into the building. Like, you're not alone, even when you know you are.

[00:25:50] It's unclear when this entity got his name, but he seems to be one of the more interactive or intelligent hauntings. The same Reddit user from before, Goddess Lizzie, said that her best paranormal encounter has to do with this entity. She said it was one of her first nights working there, and she and another actor were sitting in the day room waiting when they watched, quote,

[00:26:15] a dark shadow go from the hallway into the lookout tower into the middle of the room. Then, about ten minutes later, it went back from the lookout to the hallway where it came before. She said it freaked them both out. The next day, while she was in that same room getting changed, she started hearing footsteps in the space with her. So, she said out loud, quote,

[00:26:46] Are you the same person from last night? If so, we don't mind you hanging out with us, but just don't scare the shit out of us again. She laughed it off and then added, quote, Just let us know if you want to come hang out. Right after she said that, she heard three heavy footsteps in the hallway. She took that as her answer, yelled, thank you, and ran out of the room.

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[00:28:11] In Quaker Hall, one of the most commonly repeated reports involves a rocking chair that has been seen moving on its own while investigators are in the room. People describe it slowly shifting back and forth as if someone is sitting in it, even when the space is completely empty. In the administration building, there are also reports of something as simple as a toilet flushing

[00:28:36] in areas where there is no longer running water or functioning plumbing. Investigators say they've heard it clearly, echoing through otherwise silent hallways, with no explanation for where it could be coming from. And, on their own, these might sound like isolated incidents, but at Pennhurst, they're part of that much larger pattern of experiences

[00:29:02] that people say happen too often to just ignore. Now, there is one more piece of this location that I haven't really gone into. And that's because it's probably the most terrifying part of the entire property. Beneath Pennhurst, there is a network of tunnels that once connected different buildings across the campus.

[00:29:27] These tunnels were used for a variety of real reasons when the institution was operating. Like, they allowed staff to move between buildings without going outside, especially during harsh weather. And they were also used for transporting supplies, laundry, food, and sometimes even residence between different areas of the institution. On paper, they were just a way to make the campus more efficient.

[00:29:54] But according to those who have been inside them, the tunnels feel like something else entirely. Over the years, visitors and investigators and staff from the haunted attraction have described the tunnels as one of the most unsettling areas on the property. People report hearing footsteps behind them when no one else is down there. Whispering that seems to come from just out of sight.

[00:30:23] And voices that echo through the narrow passageways, even when the space is completely empty. Some say it feels like something is moving with them through the tunnels, just out of view. Keeping pace, but never letting themselves be seen. Others describe sudden drops in temperature, feelings of pressure in their chest, or the overwhelming sense that they are not alone.

[00:30:48] So, in the already terrifying tunnels, people don't always see anything at all. They just know something else is down there with them. And I bet right about now you're starting to say, show me the evidence. And this is one of those places where there are plenty of pieces of evidence floating around. From places like Reddit, TikTok, and some of our favorite paranormal investigative shows.

[00:31:16] So, let's go through some of the things I could find. And then we'll get into what different shows have actually captured while filming there. The first one comes from Reddit, and was posted about four years ago by a user, toothygrin19135. In the photo, you can see a young man sitting in an older chair.

[00:31:39] But right above his head, there is a dark black shadow or mist that is so dense it almost looks solid. The user said they are a skeptic, but this image stood out to them, because no one noticed anything unusual at the time it was taken. They wrote, quote, The figure seems to contain orbs of energy and is humanoid in shape.

[00:32:05] It is not a shadow, because it seems to be a solid mass and even blocks the window. Photo was taken during an overnight lock-in ghost hunt. For reference, I was not there. The guy in the photo is my brother-in-law, and I was shown the picture during a discussion about Penthurst and wanted to drop it here for some ghost enthusiasts. Not saying I believe this is the real deal or not, just find it to be a very intriguing photo.

[00:32:36] And I think we can all agree this is one of those images that genuinely is unsettling to look at. Because whether you believe it or not, it's hard to ignore how unnatural that shape looks sitting right behind him. Almost like something standing there that no one realized was in the room at the time. Now, the next piece comes from Penn Paranormal, during one of their investigations at the property.

[00:33:05] While they were conducting a walkthrough, they reportedly captured what looked like small, bare footprints appearing on the floor in real time. The footage is grainy since it was originally streamed live on Facebook, but even through the low quality, you can still make out what appear to be small, human-like footprints forming in the dust across the floor.

[00:33:31] Now, there's one more piece of evidence from TikTok that I wanted to touch on, because this one, when you hear it, will send chills down your spine. The next piece comes from a video the user posted of a daytime walkthrough of the buildings. In the footage, you can hear people talking and moving through the space like a normal tour, nothing out of the ordinary.

[00:33:55] But then, suddenly, a blood-curdling scream cuts through the audio. What makes this one so unsettling is that nobody present at the time reportedly heard it. It was only discovered later, when they went back and reviewed the recording. And then, there are the famous shows that have actually gone into Pennhurst and documented what they experienced.

[00:34:23] Our ghost bros over at Ghost Adventures is probably the most well-known investigation there. They reported a lot of intense activity. Things like unexplained noises, sudden shifts in energy, and what they believed were intelligent responses during EVP sessions. At certain points, they claimed to catch what sounded like childlike voices responding directly to questions, saying,

[00:34:51] Help me. And, yes, they did when responding. And there were, of course, moments where multiple members of the crew reacted at the same time to things they couldn't see or immediately explain. Then, there's our friend Colin, who has been to Pennhurst multiple times and explored different parts of the campus.

[00:35:15] In his investigations, he's talked about feeling those same heavy shifts in atmosphere people always describe there, especially in the older buildings and tunnel areas. He also captured moments of shadow movement and unexplained activity that seemed to line up with what so many other investigators have reported. And what's interesting is how different each space feels when you move through it.

[00:35:41] Like, the buildings almost have their own separate energy, depending on where you are. And then, ghost hunters, or TAPs, have also done investigations there. Their approach was more controlled. They focused on trying to rule out things before jumping to conclusions. But they still ended up with unexplained noises, strange EVPs, and even seeing shadowy figures moving across windows and doorways that they couldn't explain.

[00:36:10] And when you look at it all together, across all these different teams and all these different years, you start to see the same pattern showing up again and again. Truly, this is one of those places where we couldn't even begin to cover every single paranormal encounter or piece of evidence that has come out of here. So, think of this episode more as an overview of one of the most haunted places in America.

[00:36:41] And now we're at the part where we try to make sense of all of this. And really, there are two main ways to look at it. Either ghosts aren't real, and what people are hearing are just normal sounds from an old building combined with the imagination playing on fear. Or, this place is crawling with some kind of energy we can't fully explain.

[00:37:04] And of course, there is still a decaying abandoned complex of buildings with a very real and very heavy history. So, even without anything paranormal involved, places like this are naturally unsettling. Old institutions like Penthurst creak, shift, and echo in ways that can easily play tricks on your senses. Normal shadows of the building, or of your very own, do move differently in broken hallways.

[00:37:34] And sounds travel strangely through empty spaces. So, when you already know the history of a place, your mind fills in the gaps before you even realize it's doing it. The brain is incredibly good at pattern recognition, especially in low light and unfamiliar environments.

[00:37:54] So, when you combine darkness, silence, and expectation, it becomes very easy to misinterpret normal environmental noises as something more than they are. Like, a settling building could theoretically become footsteps. Or, an echo becomes a voice. And even a shadow becomes a figure.

[00:38:20] Once fear is introduced into that sort of environment, it can amplify all of that. But, then there's the other idea. Because, Pennhurst wasn't just an abandoned building. It was a place where thousands of people lived through long periods of neglect, isolation, and trauma. And that's where some people take a different approach to what might be happening there.

[00:38:48] Instead of thinking in terms of fully formed, intelligent spirits interacting with the living, there's the idea that what people are experiencing could be something more residual in nature. Almost like emotional or traumatic imprints left behind in the environment itself. So, not something conscious, but something repeated.

[00:39:13] Like, the memory of what happened there is still playing out in certain places, over and over again. On a loop that never really stopped. And those feelings, or memories, imprinted into the walls are what some people believe these hauntings really are. An energetic imprint of the people who lived through horrible experiences, still lingering within these buildings.

[00:39:42] Or, maybe these spirits really are stuck here, and they are reaching out for help. Begging the living who come into these halls to save them from the place that caused so much suffering. Whatever the answer is, one thing is certain. The people who lived and died at Pennhurst deserved better than what they received within those walls.

[00:40:09] So, what do you think? Are the spirits of Pennhurst really... out there? Be sure to follow us on Instagram at OutThereCryptids for episode posts, updates and more. Join our community on Discord where we dive even deeper into the mysteries we explore here on the podcast. The link can be found on our Instagram. And if you're loving the show, consider supporting us on Patreon.

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