The Possibility of Living Dinosaurs Pt. 2

[00:00:00] Hi there, and welcome to Out There: A Cryptid Podcast, a cryptid podcast. I'm Josh, and today we have an episode that has been requested over and over again. A part two filled with creatures that look like they never really went extinct like they were supposed to. This is The Possibility of Living Dinosaurs, Part 2. Let's dive in.

[00:00:56] Things have been absolutely crazy over here at Out There. We've got some really exciting things planned for the month of October, including some collaborations that you'll have to find out about later. Now we're back to normal episodes. As you can see, or not see, I'm back on YouTube and I'm back on Spotify with my beautiful face. So if you're watching this episode, hello. And if you're not, that's also cool too. You can

[00:01:22] listen because it's a podcast. This episode is dedicated to Ricky. This one's for you. We'll get into the Possibility of Living Dinosaurs Part 2 right after this. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolytes, Zero Sugar, and Vitamins. Propel Hydrates Better Than Water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes.

[00:01:51] This Labor Day at Lowe's. Get up to 45% off select major appliances. Plus, deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving. Right now, get a free DeWalt 20 Volt Max battery 2-pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20 Volt Max tool. At Lowe's, we have what you need to keep your job moving. Battle through 913. While supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details.

[00:02:22] Before we get into today's cases, we do need a little refresher. Because we already explored the possibility that dinosaurs might still be alive today in our Part 1. In that episode, we looked at three very different creatures. The Mokele Membe, a massive long-necked creature said to live deep in the Congo. Alleged pterosaurs flying over North Carolina and other parts of the United States.

[00:02:48] And even some raptor-like creatures reportedly seen running through the woods of Georgia. But when you actually start looking more into these reports of creatures that look like they belong in a prehistoric era, they come from all over the world. And some of them look completely different from anything we've ever talked about. Today, we're heading back to Africa to investigate a creature that some people believe looks like a living T-Rex.

[00:03:18] Then, we're looking at another massive beast that has been compared to a Triceratops. And finally, we're going back into the skies to investigate a creature that, if the witnesses are right, could mean that pterosaurs never really went extinct. Alright, so let's start with something that, if it was real, would probably be one of the craziest cryptids we have ever talked about on this podcast. What if I were to tell you that back in 1932,

[00:03:48] someone claimed to have come face-to-face with a creature in the Congo that looked something like a giant prehistoric reptile. Something that was apparently massive, moved through the jungle at incredible speeds, and was even seen feeding on rhinos. And allegedly, there was even photographic evidence. This is the story of Kaze Rex.

[00:04:15] But let me tell you, this case gets weird. And not just because there might have been a dinosaur running around the Congo. Because the more I looked into this story, the more I realized that Kaze Rex might actually be one of the best examples of how a cryptid can completely change over time. So, let's go back to 1932.

[00:04:41] The story actually starts with another creature called the Chepakwe. That's what some of the people living in Central Africa reportedly called it. The name translates to something along the lines of water lion. A South African hunter named Franz Grubler had reportedly been collecting stories about this creature and told the Cape Argus, which is a Cape Town newspaper, about what he had heard. According to Grubler,

[00:05:09] this was some kind of massive reptile that lived in the swamps and could weigh around four tons. It was said to attack hippos, rhinos, and even elephants. And apparently, Grubler had even seen a photograph of one. He claimed the picture showed this massive reptilian creature standing over a dead hippo. Now, only a couple of days after this story was published,

[00:05:37] another story appeared in the same newspaper that seemed to support this idea that there really was some kind of giant reptile living out there. This time, the story came from a Swedish plantation overseer named J. C. Johansson. According to his account, on February 16th, 1932, he was in the Kaze region of what is now the Democratic Republic of the Congo with his gun bearer.

[00:06:07] They were making their way toward the water when Johansson noticed two elephants partially hidden in the jungle. But then, he noticed something else. Something around 50 yards away. Johansson described the creature as being around 16 yards long, which is about 50 feet. He said it had a lizard-like head and a long tail. And apparently,

[00:06:35] he was so shocked by what he was seeing that he actually passed out. When he came to, he thought maybe he was just hallucinating. Johansson apparently managed to take three photos of the creature. Although, supposedly, only one of them actually came out. The animal then disappeared into the jungle. But later, Johansson would claim that he saw it again. This time, he and his gun bearer

[00:07:04] were making their way back through the area when they came across the creature covered in mud and feeding on the body of a dead rhino. Johansson supposedly hid nearby and watched as this thing ate. According to the story, he could actually hear it crunching through the bones of the animal. Johansson, decided to try and take another photo. And apparently, when he did, the creature noticed him

[00:07:33] and jumped into the water before disappearing. This whole experience left him so terrified that he collapsed again and spent the next eight days delirious with a fever. Now, when you hear this story today, it is usually presented as the story of Kaze Rex, like I told you. This is the name that this cryptid has become known as. Except, Kaze Rex is described

[00:08:02] as a living T-Rex, or at least some kind of surviving theropod dinosaur. The creature is usually described as a massive reddish dinosaur with dark stripes, huge legs, and a mouth full of teeth. So, basically something that looks like it walked straight out of Jurassic Park. But, here's where this story starts to really get interesting. Because, that actually isn't what

[00:08:31] Johansson originally described. He never said he saw a T-Rex. He didn't describe a red creature with black stripes. He apparently didn't even call the thing a dinosaur. The original description was much simpler. A massive creature with a lizard-like head and a long tail. So, somewhere along the line, this giant reptile started becoming more and more dinosaur-like. But,

[00:09:01] the story kept getting retold. More details were being added, and eventually, it became known as the Cosirex. Now, Johansson had claimed to have taken a photograph, and for years, an image showing what appeared to be a massive reptilian creature standing over the body of another animal was connected to this case. And honestly, when you first see it, you're kind of like, okay,

[00:09:29] what the hell is that? It looks weird, and for a long time, this photograph was presented as evidence that maybe Johansson really did see something. But, unfortunately, there are some pretty big problems with it. Cryptozoologist Bernard Holzman looked into the case and found several inconsistencies. For example, some versions of the story said the creature was feeding on a rhino,

[00:09:59] while others said it was standing over a hippopotamus, which, of course, could be the two sightings getting mixed together, but it also could be the fact that the story was unraveling. Anyways, Holzman also believed the famous photograph was faked and was likely some kind of composite image. Basically, an old-school version of Photoshop. A smaller reptile was allegedly placed into another photograph to make it look like

[00:10:29] this massive prehistoric creature was standing over a dead animal. and that would already be enough to make you question the entire story. However, there's more. More on the possibility of living dinosaurs part two right after this. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade Electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel Hydrates Better Than Water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self.

[00:10:59] What propels you? Propel with Gatorade Electrolytes. This Labor Day at Lowe's. Get up to 45% off select major appliances. Plus, deals on select materials and tools to keep the job moving. Right now, get a free DeWalt 20 Volt Max battery two-pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20 Volt Max tool. At Lowe's, we have what you need to keep your job moving. Valid through 913 while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com

[00:11:28] for more details. The story of Johansson may not have been an eyewitness account that got exaggerated over time. According to research into the original newspaper sources, the story may have actually been connected to an April Fool's joke published in 1932. Meaning, this entire thing could have started

[00:11:58] as a joke. Somehow, that story then got repeated, mixed together with other reports of giant reptiles in Central Africa and continued to grow. The creature became more dinosaur-like, more details were added, photographs started circulating, and eventually, we got the Kaze Rex that people know today. Add in the fact that online, there's two different photos that people claim to be the original photo, and this whole thing becomes even more

[00:12:28] confusing. So, Kaze Rex may not be evidence that dinosaurs are still alive, or at least survived much further than believed to have. So unfortunately, I don't think this one is going to be the dinosaur that finally proves something prehistoric is still hiding in our world. But honestly, I still think this is a perfect case to start with. Because, if we're going to spend this episode looking at creatures that may have somehow survived extinction,

[00:12:57] we also have to remember that not every cryptid story is going to lead to an unknown animal. And it's good for us to always hear everything and then make our decisions based on the evidence presented. But, that surely isn't the only cryptid we are going to talk about today. So, let's stay in Africa, but head up north of the Congo region, where another type of prehistoric creature is said to still be roaming. And this one

[00:13:27] is a little different from Kaze, because there isn't a photo, or really a single dramatic encounter. Instead, Emele Entuka has been popping up in reports from the Congo Basin for decades. The name Emele Entuka roughly translates to Killer of Elephants, which is already a crazy name for a cryptid. The creature is said to live around the swamps and waterways of the Lekula

[00:13:57] region of the Congo Basin, in the same general part of Africa that has become famous for another cryptid, Mokele Membe. Now, descriptions do vary depending on who you ask, but this elephant killer is described as somewhere between the size of a buffalo and an elephant, with a large single horn coming out of its head. It's also reportedly an herbivore, which makes the whole thing even more strange because this isn't some

[00:14:26] giant predator hunting for its next meal. Apparently, it just really doesn't like sharing its swamp. According to the stories, Emele Entuka is incredibly aggressive and territorial, especially when it comes to elephants, hippos, and buffalo. The animal is said to charge others and use its horn to impale them. And I don't know about you, but if someone tells me there's a massive animal that will apparently walk up to an elephant, stab it with its horn,

[00:14:57] kill it, and then just leave it, I'm gonna head out of that jungle real fast. But one of the earliest written accounts dates back to 1954, when French wildlife inspector Lucien Blanco started to put together reports of this mysterious animal in the Lacula region, in the French zoological journal, Mammalia. According to the people he spoke to, this was a massive animal and its tracks were

[00:15:27] only seen occasionally, and the people living in the area were definitely scared of it. Then, someone you may remember, but probably don't because I didn't, comes to the rescue to figure out what's going on here. Roy Mackle, who was one of the big names behind the search for Mokele Membe, came in with James Powell and traveled through the Congo in 1980. Emelie and Tuca wasn't even what they had gone in search

[00:15:56] for, but as they started talking to people in the region, they began hearing about this creature, and the detail that came up all the time was that witnesses said this was actually an aquatic creature with a giant horn. But then, things got really interesting in 1981, because an explorer named Herman Rutskers and his team reportedly heard about an incident near the village of Bao

[00:16:26] involving three fully grown elephants. According to the story, the elephants were found dead in the water, and supposedly had puncture wounds in their abdomens. Their ivory was still intact, which was a sign that poachers most likely were not involved, and locals said there could only be one murderer, a Mele Antuca. Now, there is a living known animal that is definitely

[00:16:56] fathomable to have committed this crime, and does sound very similar to what witnesses were describing. Rhinos already have horns, they're herbivores, they're incredibly territorial, and they absolutely are capable of being dangerous to other large animals. The problem is that the Congo Basin doesn't exactly have a population of giant semi-aquatic rhinos that are known for hanging out

[00:17:26] in swamps. So, either we're dealing with a misidentified animal, an unusual animal that people don't recognize, or something that we don't currently have an explanation for. dinosaur. Some have suggested that this creature could actually be a surviving ceratopsian dinosaur, and honestly, when you hear large herbivore with a giant single horn, it does make sense. The problem is that there

[00:17:55] are some pretty major issues with it. Ceratopsian fossils aren't known from Africa, and most of the animals we're talking about had those huge frills around the back of their heads, something that isn't consistently mentioned in the descriptions of a Maliantuca. Even Roy Mackle himself considered the rhino as an explanation. So, this isn't exactly a case where every investigator involved was convinced

[00:18:25] they had found a living dinosaur. But, here's a theme we always come back to. If people who live in this region said they saw some sort of creature they haven't seen before, it's most likely not a rhino. Which, they have seen. But, on the flip side, one could argue that because rhinos don't venture into swamps very often, some locals may view it as a monster or some type of cryptid. Either way, there really

[00:18:54] hasn't been any sightings of this creature that were published or shared after all of these reports. So, for now, we'll just have to keep our distance in the swamps so we don't get impaled by a territorial triceratops. Okay, but, if we're going to talk about possible living dinosaurs, I feel like we have to take to the skies for this next one. And this time, we're leaving Africa completely and heading thousands of miles away to Papua New Guinea,

[00:19:25] where there are stories of a strange flying creature that sounds like it could have flown straight out of the Jurassic period. And if you thought a meleantuca was weird, just wait until you hear about the ropin. The ropin is usually described as a large nocturnal flying creature with leathery wings, a long tail, a beak filled with teeth, and sometimes a crest or some sort of appendage coming off the back

[00:19:55] of its head. It's described as being between 15 to 20 feet across. And unlike a normal bird, the ropin is supposedly completely featherless. But, there is one detail that really sets this thing apart from pretty much every other possible living dinosaur we've talked about today. Apparently, the ropin glows. According to eyewitness accounts, the creature has a bright

[00:20:24] light that some stories say comes from its stomach, some from the end of its tail, and others from the tips of its wings. The light is supposedly most noticeable at night, when the creature can be seen flying over the mountains, jungle, or coastline. The ropin is reportedly spotted most around the Umboy Island, which sits off the coast of Papua New Gini. One of the earliest reports of this cryptid goes back to the 1930s,

[00:20:54] when British biologist and entomologist Evelyn Cheeseman was traveling through Papua New Guinea. Cheeseman wrote about strange lights moving over the mountains at night, and she couldn't figure out what was causing them. She specifically ruled out the possibility that they were people walking around with lights because of where and how they were appearing. However, she never said that it was a flying reptile or anything like that.

[00:21:23] She just said that there were unexplained lights, but then decades later, those reports became part of the larger Ropin story. But then we get to one of the most famous Ropin related sightings, and this one happened during World War II. In 1944, an American serviceman named Dwayne Hodgkinson was stationed in what is now Papua New Guinea. According to his later account, he and another soldier were

[00:21:53] walking through a forested area near Finchoffen when they heard something crashing through the vegetation. They came into a clearing and watched what Hodgkinson initially thought was a huge bird, take off and fly away. Hodgkinson estimated the wingspan to be around 20 to 25 feet, basically the size of a small airplane. He described a dark gray creature with

[00:22:23] enormous wings, a long neck, a beak, a long tail, and a strange crest sticking out from the back of its head. And this is the part that really stands out. Hodgkinson's was a pilot, so he wasn't exactly unfamiliar with aircraft size or judging the size of things in the sky. He later said the creature reminded him of a dinosaur.

[00:22:53] More on the possibility of living dinosaurs part two, right after this. Propel Fitness Water with Gatorade electrolytes, zero sugar, and vitamins. Propel hydrates better than water to help you get the most out of your workout and get back to your best self. What propels you? Propel with Gatorade electrolytes. This Labor Day at Lowe's. Get up to 45% off select major appliances. Plus, deals on select materials and tools to

[00:23:23] keep the job moving. Right now, get a free DeWalt 20 Volt Max battery two pack when you buy a select DeWalt 20 Volt Max tool. At Lowe's, we have what you need to keep your job moving. Battle through 913, while supplies last. Selection varies by location. See Lowe's.com for more details. Now, reports from locals kept being passed around in the cryptozoology community. So, beginning in the 1990s and

[00:23:52] especially into the early 2000s, American cryptozoologists and researchers began traveling to Papua New Guinea, specifically looking for evidence of living pterosaurs. Big names like Carl Bowe, Paul Nation, Jonathan Whitcomb, Garth Gussman, and David Walshle made expeditions to places like Umboy Island. They interviewed locals and looked for the flying creature and really

[00:24:22] tried to find the glowing lights. These expeditions did produce tons of eyewitness stories, but sadly, very little physical evidence. A few investigators claimed to have seen distant lights, but nobody came home with a living pterosaur, a body, a bone, or even a really good photograph. But, there is a little bit of confusion in the reports from these cryptozoologists. There is

[00:24:52] the description we have heard, with a wingspan of 15 to 20 feet, a crest on its head, a long tail, and the glowing underside. But, when cryptozoologist Carl Schucker argued that this enormous creature may actually have been a different animal, called the name of Dwa, and he said that the ropin may actually be a smaller animal, with roughly only a three-foot wingspan, a long tail ending in a

[00:25:21] diamond-shaped vein, and a mouthful of teeth. But, that doesn't seem to be the majority of the sightings, but I do think it's important to note that this is in this case. Another detail from the ropin is that their diet is mainly fish. However, there are also stories that the ropin is a grave robber. And this is where things get particularly creepy. According to some local accounts, the ropin

[00:25:51] is said to dig into graves and literally carry away human remains. And in the second episode of our favorite cryptid TV show, they found a graveyard that had been broken, stone caskets, and missing bodies. Our favorite person, Josh Gates, investigated this creature in 2007. Josh and his team traveled to the Salamaua area by boat, hiked through the mountains, dealt with

[00:26:21] caves, and at one point even discovered what they were told were graves that had been disrupted by the ropin. Eventually, Josh and the crew made it to the cave and found droppings inside. They also reported finding what appeared to be a small piece of human bone. They couldn't stay inside for long because the cave became unstable and there were tons of bats, so they set up camp outside and pointed several infrared cameras toward the sky and then they waited.

[00:26:50] At around 10.30 that night, one of the cameras picked up a moving light, but the team determined that it was just a bug. But then later, at around 11.47, Josh saw a moving light in the sky through his camera, and one of the infrared cameras captured a much larger glowing orb. It appeared to move through the night sky, and Josh and the team couldn't immediately identify what it was. And it's important to know

[00:27:20] that it is illegal to fly a plane at night, so there's no way it could be examined by video forensic specialists who said that the strange orb wasn't simply a camera malfunction. Since it was moving around the sky, there's no way it was a camera malfunction. Josh also showed the footage to zoologist Dr. Andrew Inglis from UC Davis, who is a specialist

[00:27:50] in birds of Papua New Guinea. First, Dr. Inglis pointed out that a large local bird called Blythe's hornbill could potentially be mistaken for the ropin because of its size and appearance, but he couldn't identify the strange light captured by the camera. So Josh basically ended the investigation with the same frustrating answer we keep getting with these things. They saw something, but they didn't know what it was. Now,

[00:28:20] obviously there are some explanations for what people could be seeing here that don't involve a living pterosaur. One of the biggest possibilities is a giant bat. Papua New Guinea is home to some pretty huge fruit bats and if you've ever seen a bat flying at night you know that they can already look pretty weird when you don't exactly know what you're looking at. Now, imagine seeing one of those things flying overhead in the middle of the jungle and only getting a few seconds to look

[00:28:50] at it. I could absolutely see how something like that could turn into a giant flying monster. Now, there's some other things, like there's the possibility of it being just a large bird, including the Blythe's hornbill, which Dr. Inglis himself pointed out. But then you have the glowing lights, which could be a completely separate thing, but

[00:29:45] a case. Josh investigated and people still claim to see this creature. So, what could people be seeing in the skies? Now, before we get into the explanations section, I thought it would be interesting to actually look up whether the types of dinosaurs these cryptids are supposedly related to have ever been found in the places where

[00:30:17] the basic answer is yes. Dinosaur fossils and evidence has been found in Africa. We have fossils of large theropods from the continent. So, there is nothing strange about the idea of a large predator dinosaur having lived in Africa millions of years ago. But we don't have any fossils of T-Rex itself or a dinosaur that we can confidently say looks like that animal that is described as

[00:30:47] the Kaze Rex at least from the Democratic Republic of the Congo. So, that's a little bit of a mixed bag, I guess. Like, dinosaurs, yes. A T-Rex type dinosaur in the Congo, we don't have the fossil evidence for that. But then, we have a melee in Tuka. And this one is a little bit more of a problem, which we specified earlier in the episode. We do

[00:31:17] in fact, there aren't any known Triceratops fossils from Africa at all. So, while Africa obviously had dinosaurs, we don't have fossil evidence showing that a Triceratops like dinosaur was living in the same region where a melee Antuka is supposedly being seen. And then, there is the Ropin. Again, we're talking

[00:31:47] about the world. But, there aren't any known pterosaur fossils from Papua New Guinea that would match the giant flying creature described in these stories. So, no smoking gun. However, animals migrate all the time, especially when they're trying to survive or evade detection. So, there's always a chance that something similar could have made its way into these areas. Is that

[00:32:16] likely? Probably not. But, when we're talking about possible living dinosaurs, I don't think we can completely rule out anything just because we haven't found the exact fossil evidence in the exact place where people are reporting these creatures. But, after hearing these three cases, there's something that is still so fascinating to me. When we talk about the possibility of living dinosaurs, we're not talking about some completely made-up monster. These animals

[00:32:46] actually existed. We have tangible animals that we can actually point to and say, yes, this was a real thing that walked around Earth. And that's what makes some of these cryptid stories so interesting. interesting. Because how do people from thousands of miles away, living in places where they may have never seen a dinosaur fossil, never gone to a natural history museum, and obviously never watched Jurassic Park, end up describing

[00:33:16] something that sounds eerily similar to an animal that we know existed millions of years ago. Because think about it, you have somebody living in Papua New Guinea talking about a giant flying creature with wings and a long tail, and then you go look at the fossil record and you're like, wait a minute, there actually was an animal that looked like that.

[00:33:46] Now, obviously that doesn't automatically mean these creatures are still alive today. There are plenty of reasons why people can misidentify animals, stories can change over time, and the folklore can evolve. And we also have to remember that when these stories were written down, they were often being recorded by outsiders, who may not have understood exactly what the people telling them were describing. But I think the question is still worth asking. Because if someone who has never seen a

[00:34:16] dinosaur looks at a picture of a dinosaur and says, oh yeah, we have something like that here, I don't know if I'm ever going to completely be comfortable just writing that off. Now, that's sort of in reference to a dinosaur we almost covered in this episode, but then found out that it was a treasure trove for a full episode, so stay tuned for that one. Now, either way, I think this is why the idea of living dinosaurs

[00:34:46] are so fascinating, and why all of us, including Ricky, really love it. Because, for once, we're not asking whether a creature like this could exist. We already know it could, because it did. The question is whether any of them are really still out there. And I don't know about you guys, but that's a pretty damn cool question to end on. So, what do you think? Are living dinosaurs really out there?

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