The Pukwudgie

[00:00:00] Hi there, and welcome to Out There: A Cryptid Podcast. I'm Josh, and today we're diving into the strange and sometimes unsettling folklore of the mysterious little beings said to roam the forests of New England. And even though they may be small, some say they're among the most dangerous cryptids. These are the Pukwudgies. Let's dive in.

[00:00:57] We'll get into the Pukwudgie right after this.

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[00:02:04] We're staying in the Salem area for the rest of the month. And listen, we could probably talk about witches and the Salem witch trials forever. But there are plenty of other strange creatures roaming around Massachusetts that we've got to cover. We've already talked about the Dover Demon, but there's another group of cryptids with a much longer history. Their stories stretch from Native American legends all the way to modern day sightings.

[00:02:34] And people have been claiming to encounter these mysterious little creatures for generations. So what exactly is a Pukwudgie? Well, depending on who you ask, the answer can get a little complicated. Today, Pukwudgies are usually described as these small human-like creatures that live in the woods. They're said to be around two or three feet tall, with grayish skin, big ears, and sometimes hair covering parts of their bodies.

[00:03:04] And depending on the story, they can be anything from mischievous little creatures to something you definitely do not want to run into in the woods. But if we go back and actually look at where the name Pukwudgie comes from, things get a little more complicated. The earliest written version of the name that we can really point to comes from the 1800s.

[00:03:30] And it actually comes from the Great Lakes region, not Massachusetts. In 1839, Henry Rowe Schoolcraft published a collection called Algillic Researches, which included stories he had collected from Ojibwe sources. One of those stories included what he called the Pukwudgie and Nee. Schoolcraft later explained the name as meaning something along the lines of

[00:03:59] The Little Wild Man of the Woods That Vanishes. But this wasn't a story about some little gray creature wandering around Massachusetts. This was an Obie-Gwe story from the Great Lakes region. But then Pukwudgies became connected to New England because of a man named Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. In 1855, Longfellow published The Song of Haiwatha,

[00:04:28] which was heavily based on stories that had been collected by Schoolcraft. In one section of this book called The Death of Kowasand, the Pukwudgies are the little beings who managed to kill the incredibly strong character named Kowasand by pelting him with pine cones. The book became so popular, which is what helped spread the name and the stories about these little beings to a much larger audience.

[00:04:58] But that isn't the only reason it's tied to Massachusetts. Because a few decades later, in 1906, Thomas Weston published Histories of the Town of Middleborough, Massachusetts. And he included a version of that story, but set in Middleborough, around Azawamset Pond. In this version, the Pukwudgies were living on an island there.

[00:05:27] But this is where things get a little tricky, because you'll sometimes see the history of the Pukwudgie told as if it was from ancient Massachusetts legends. But it's hard to say, since the name comes from Ojibwe stories recorded in the Great Lakes region. While the indigenous people in New England had their own traditions about little people and supernatural beings. But different groups had different names, and even different stories,

[00:05:57] so we shouldn't just lump them all together, and say they're all talking about exactly the same creature. But over time, the name Pukwudgie became more connected with indigenous stories from New England, particularly stories associated with the Wampanoag people. And this is where we start getting some of the darker parts of their story. In some Wampanoag traditions,

[00:06:27] the Pukwudgies were originally friendly toward humans, but then they became jealous and angry around a spiritual figure called Mashop. According to some versions, the Pukwudgies were driven away after causing problems for Mashop and his people. But eventually, they came back looking for revenge. And these aren't exactly cute little forest fairies anymore. They're accused,

[00:06:56] in some stories, for using poisoned arrows, tricking people, leading people into dangerous places, and even causing people to die. Some stories also say they could disappear or become invisible, while later versions give them other supernatural abilities, like shapeshifting and creating fire. And that's really where the Pukwudgie starts to become the creature we know today. Of course,

[00:07:25] there isn't one definitive Pukwudgie story, and depending on where you look, they can be described pretty differently. And these stories have changed and developed over time. However, these creatures didn't just stay in stories. Because throughout the 1900s, people were claiming to have come face to face with these beings. One of the earliest modern Pukwudgie encounters is a pretty specific account

[00:07:55] that actually comes from Indiana in June of 1926. And this one comes from a guy named Paul Startsman, who was only 10 years old at the time. Startsman grew up in Anderson, Indiana, and had grown up hearing stories about the little people that were said to live along the White River. His grandmother, who was Native American, had told his family stories about these little beings.

[00:08:25] So, this wasn't a case of a kid who had never heard of anything like this before. He already knew these stories. According to Startsman's account, he was walking near an overgrown gravel pit when he noticed what looked like a little man standing nearby. Startsman estimated that the figure was about two feet tall. The two of them were roughly ten yards apart, and for a moment, they just stood there

[00:08:54] looking at each other. He described the little man as having thick, dark blonde hair, a round face that looked pinkish, almost like it had been sunburned, and he was barefoot. He was also wearing what Startsman described as a long, light blue gown, or robe, that came down almost to his ankles. After standing there for a moment, the little man turned around

[00:09:23] and ran off into the woods. Now, it doesn't seem like Startsman told anyone about the sighting, or at least he didn't mention if he did, but his story doesn't stop there. He claimed that he had another encounter in the same general area not long afterward. This time, he was with a friend, and they saw another small figure that followed them for a while before disappearing into the woods.

[00:09:53] Startsman eventually became an amateur archaeologist, and spent years collecting stories from other people who claimed they had seen these little beings around Indiana. He even eventually wrote a book about his experiences called The Pukwudgie Wajiz of Indiana. The fact that he kept talking and researching about these encounters into adulthood is what makes this sighting stand out. You can

[00:10:23] absolutely be skeptical of what he saw, and honestly, I think you should be, given his age at the time. But Startsman was convinced that what he saw wasn't just a person or an animal that he mistook for a little creature. He believed he had encountered the same little people he'd grown up hearing about. out. But after Startsman's first encounter in 1927, his sightings didn't stop. He continued

[00:10:53] having encounters throughout the 1930s. So now we have this really interesting situation where something that had existed in folklore for generations was suddenly becoming the subject of modern eyewitness accounts. And eventually, they aren't just in one place, because sightings started sprouting up miles away in Massachusetts. One of the

[00:11:22] more well-known accounts comes from a man named Bill Russo in Rainham, Massachusetts. In 1990, Russo was living near the Hockamock Swamp, and one night he was out walking his dog, Samantha, after midnight. As they were walking along a paved road underneath a streetlight, Russo noticed something standing nearby. At first, he wasn't really sure what he was looking at,

[00:11:52] but as he got a better look, he realized it was some kind of small humanoid creature. He described it as being around three to four feet tall, covered in hair with a pot belly, slightly to a chipmunk. The creature made a strange vocal sound, and then appeared to beckon Russo toward him. Russo said that he and Samantha were basically frozen

[00:12:21] in place, but he eventually decided he wasn't going to get any closer, and got out of there. Now, this is one of those stories where the details changed a little bit once it became part of the cryptid world, because Russo didn't originally say he saw a Pukwudgie. He just said he saw an unidentified creature. It wasn't until a filmmaker named Aaron Kaju interviewed him for the

[00:12:50] Bridgewater Triangle documentary years later that the Pukwudgie would be connected to this sighting. In fact, Russo later said that he didn't even know Pukwudgies were around for that interview. And this is also where we start getting into the Bridgewater Triangle, which is an area of southeastern Massachusetts that's become famous for all kinds of strange reports, from UFOs

[00:13:20] and Bigfoot-like creatures to ghosts and other unexplained activity. We're not going to go too far down into the Bridgewater Triangle rabbit hole today, because that's going to be for next week's episode. But the Hockomock Swamp and Freetown State Forest are both within the area, and both places show up quite a bit in Pukwudgie stories. Russo's story actually became one of the better-known pieces of

[00:13:49] Bridgewater Triangle lore, after it was featured in the documentary, and then on one of our favorite shows, Monsters and Mysteries in America, in 2013. Of course, the show went a little further than Russo's actual account, and presented the creature as definitely being a Pukwudgie, and even described the encounter as an attack, which isn't how Russo originally described what happened. But either way,

[00:14:18] we have a pretty recent report of these strange creatures not only being seen, but now trying to lure a grown man and his dog to who knows where, for who knows what purpose. More on the Pukwudgies right after this. The Lemonati has spent decades keeping Lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Their Lemon agenda has infiltrated everything, even our music.

[00:14:48] That hit song named after the color of lemons? Not a coincidence. Big Lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years. Think about it. But now, 7Up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first. 7Up. Flip the sip. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments, it's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the

[00:15:18] plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. Around 1993 or 1994, a few years after Russo's sighting, we get another account from Massachusetts.

[00:15:49] It took place in Freetown State Forest, which is also located inside that triangle. A woman named Joan was walking her dog, Sid, through the forest on a cold Saturday morning in April. Sid suddenly became anxious and wandered a little ways off the path, so Joan followed him into the woods. Then, she saw something sitting on a rock about 10 feet away. Joan estimated that it was only

[00:16:18] about 2 feet tall. She described it as having pale grey skin, hair on its arms and the top of its head, very short legs, a large stomach, deep green eyes, big lips, and a long nose that reminded her of a dog's. She said it looked like what she would describe as a troll. The creature didn't move toward her or make any kind of sound. It just stared at her. Joan said the whole encounter

[00:16:47] lasted less than 30 seconds before Sid suddenly took off toward the trail, pulling her along with him. But, just like Startsman, this wasn't the last time Joan saw it. According to her account, after that day she woke up three separate times and saw what she believed was the same creature looking through her bedroom window. She said that each time she was fully awake and able to move.

[00:17:17] The creature would only stay there for a short time before disappearing. She never went back into the forest after the original encounter. So, as we can see, we're starting to get a pattern where these creatures are seen multiple times and most of the time seem to be observing and in one, beckoning for some unknown reason. However, we have yet to see any sort of aggression or even supernatural abilities.

[00:17:47] That is, this sighting is also in the Freetown area and it was by a man named Tim. Tim was interested in paranormal investigation, so when he was walking through the woods and noticed a bright ball of light in front of him, he got pretty excited. He thought he might be seeing something paranormal, so he pulled out his digital camera and tried to take a picture. The light disappeared,

[00:18:17] but then reappeared a few feet further into the woods, so Tim followed it. This happened several times until he realized he had gone more than 30 feet off the trail and was surrounded by thick woods. He decided to turn around and head back, but when he reached the path, he saw a small man-like figure walking toward him. Tim estimated that it was about two feet tall. He said it walked upright,

[00:18:47] moved with a slight limp, and used its arms and hands to push branches out of its way just like a person would. Tim turned around and ran, and when he looked back, the figure had disappeared into the woods. And if that wasn't terrifying enough, a few years later, Tim says he saw the same thing again. This time, he was sitting in

[00:19:17] a parking lot near the same forest, waiting for a friend. When he looked toward the trees and saw the little figures standing watching him, he said the details looked exactly the same as the first encounter. But then, while he was still sitting in the car, the engine suddenly revved on its own, and the radio became louder. Tim decided that this was enough and drove away. He said he took the

[00:19:46] long way home because he was so shaken up. By this point, Pukwudgies had become pretty attached to the Freetown State Forest in local paranormal and cryptid community, and legend even became part of a very Massachusetts style joke in 2017. The Freetown Police Department put up a Pukwudgie crossing sign near the State Forest warning drivers about Pukwudgies crossing the road.

[00:20:16] The announcement said that the creatures were especially likely to be crossing during their mating season, which apparently began and ended on April Fool's Day. So, no, the Freetown Police were not actually warning residents that a bunch of two-feet-tall magical creatures were running into traffic. It was an April Fool's prank. But the joke had clearly become part of the local identity of the area, and the sign got enough attention that local media picked up the

[00:20:46] story. So, as we can see, the Pukwudgie had gone from being a piece of indigenous folklore to something that was being treated as a modern cryptid now, and that reputation only got bigger when the area started being mentioned in television shows and documentaries. But the sightings didn't stop. In 2023, folklorist Peter Muse was contacted by a woman that he calls Mary by an encounter she

[00:21:16] had in Norwell, Massachusetts. Mary had been taking care of a friend's Labrador and had gotten into the habit of taking the dog out for a walk between four and five in the morning. On March 1st, she was walking near a small watershed surrounded by woods and swamp when the dog suddenly stopped and started growling. It was completely dark and at first Mary thought the dog might have spotted a raccoon or even a coyote.

[00:21:45] Then, she looked toward the woods and realized there was something else there. She described seeing a small humanoid creature with black matted fur and glowing green eyes. Now, she later says that she wants to be upfront about the detail of the eyes possibly being made up memory, but either way, she was so scared for her and the dog's safety that they immediately ran home.

[00:22:15] A few days after, on March 13th, Mary saw it again. The dog had returned to its owner at this point when she heard tapping outside her home. She first thought it was her daughter, but she quickly realized that wasn't the case because her daughter was upstairs. All she could think of was that this creature she saw before had followed her.

[00:22:44] The next day, she told some co-workers about what had happened and one of them said that she might have encountered a Pukwudgie. That's when Mary reached out to Peter, who documented the story on his New England lore site. And again, there's no physical evidence here that proves what Mary saw, but this one is interesting because it's a fairly recent first person report and it sounds pretty much exactly like what

[00:23:14] so many other witnesses have described. So now we've got almost a century of reported sightings, all with fairly similar physical descriptions and also behavior. That always stands out to me when we talk about cryptids because it shows variations in these creatures. And like we've talked about a lot with other episodes, in order for species of cryptids to survive, you need many different

[00:23:42] unrelated ones to prevent inbreeding. So the fact that these stories describe multiple creatures in different places is at least an interesting thing to consider. And there are still more stories out there, including a pretty interesting one from Reddit. Now, with all Reddit stories, we don't have a way to verify it, but it was posted to the paranormal subreddit by a user named suspicious

[00:24:12] half five seven five eight, who said that when they and their sister were kids, they saw something strange in their bedroom. Their post says that the two siblings were sharing a bunk bed in a trailer, with the writer sleeping on the bottom and their sister sleeping above them. The writer said they were around four or five years old at the time, and their sister was about seven. This took place in northwest

[00:24:42] Ohio. One night, as they were falling asleep, the writer noticed something moving out of the corner of his eye. It was a small figure around three feet tall. It slowly walked into their bedroom. They described it as a creature with grayish-blue skin, and it was slightly glowing. It had an elongated nose, long fingers, long ears, long feet, and what they described as spiky,

[00:25:11] hedgehog-like hair running down its back. It had a skinny but muscular body, and was wearing what the writer described as a Native American-style outfit. The creature walked into the middle of the room, stopped, and just stared at both of them. The writer said they weren't terrified. They described the feeling more as a kind of respect while this thing was looking at them. After a few seconds, the creature turned around,

[00:25:41] continued walking, and then disappeared through a wall. The writer immediately asked her sister, did you see that? And she said she did. So they grabbed a Nerf gun from the bed and told their sister that if the thing came back, they were going to shoot it. Which honestly is a pretty good response from a five-year-old who just watched a three-foot-tall glowing goblin walk through their bedroom. But the two somehow went back to sleep and told their

[00:26:11] parents what had happened. But as expected, their parents didn't believe them. And the interesting thing is that the siblings continued remembering the encounter the same way as they got older. They would occasionally bring it up to each other, but neither one of them knew what they had actually seen. According to the writer, they didn't have the internet, they hadn't been researching cryptids, and they didn't have an idea for whatever they saw. Then,

[00:26:41] years later, when the writer was in their twenties, they were watching a ghost hunting show, and at some point, the people in the show started talking about Pukwudgies. The writer said they immediately started looking up pictures online, and when they found the different descriptions, they were stunned. They said one of the images looked almost exactly like what they and their sister had seen as children. So they sent the picture to their sister without telling her what it was,

[00:27:11] and she immediately recognized it, and said that it was the creature from their childhood. Now, obviously there are a lot of questions that come up with a story like this. These were two young kids, so it could have been something they misunderstood, and memories from childhood can change over time. But the fact that the writer didn't even know what a Pukwudgie was until decades later does make the story more interesting.

[00:27:41] But I think this is a good story to end on, because it really does establish this pattern of behavior from these creatures. On one hand, we have indigenous stories that tell these creatures being dangerous and even deadly, but now we have a ton of sightings that seem to show them as more of watchers or just minding their own business in forests. Whether you believe these people are seeing an actual creature or misidentified

[00:28:10] animal or something else entirely, there is plenty of consistent threads running through a lot of these accounts. People describe seeing something small, human-like, and completely out of place, usually around the woods or somewhere they don't expect to see another person. And sometimes they don't even know the word Pukwudgie before having the sightings. So, after hearing all of these stories, the obvious

[00:28:39] question is, what are these people actually seeing? There are a few different ways you can look at the Pukwudgie, and I think there are really three explanations that make the most sense. More on the Pukwudgies right after this. The Lemonati has spent decades keeping lemon on top and lime in the shadows. Their lemon agenda has infiltrated everything, even our music.

[00:29:08] That hit song named after the color of lemons? Not a coincidence. Big Lemon has been pulling strings in the industry for years. Think about it. But now, 7up is fighting back with their new lime lemon soda. Now lime comes first. 7up. Flip the sip. This episode is brought to you by Palmolive. Family time isn't just the big moments, it's weeknight dinners, sitting around the table, everyone talking all at once. So when the

[00:29:38] plates are empty and the sink is full, use Palmolive Ultra. Palmolive's most powerful formula removes up to 99.9% of grease, leaving your dishes sparkling clean. And the new convenient pump makes cleaning even easier, so you can spend less time tackling dishes and more time together. Shop now at palmolive.com. The first is probably the simplest. People are just seeing something else. A lot of these

[00:30:07] encounters happen in the woods, sometimes at night, sometimes from a distance, and usually only for a few seconds. A small animal standing on its back legs, a real person in the distance, a shadow, or even the way light moves through the trees can look completely different when you're not expecting to see it. And there are actually a few animals that could potentially explain some of these sightings. Raccoons are probably one of the first that comes to mind

[00:30:37] because they can stand upright on their back legs, and from a distance their shape can look surprisingly human. Plus, they are very common and sometimes very curious of humans. Groundhogs and other animals that regularly sit or stand upright could create a similar effect. I mean, even a young black bear standing on its hind legs could look like a small person if you only saw it for a few seconds. And once you see

[00:31:07] something strange and can't figure out what it is, it's pretty natural to start looking for an explanation. Now, that doesn't mean every person who says they saw Pukwudgie was lying or imagining things. They could have absolutely seen something. The question is whether that something was actually a Pukwudgie. Now, the second possibility is that Pukwudgie was always meant to be a story, and over time, that

[00:31:37] story turned into what we now think of as a cryptid. And when you look back at the history we talked about earlier, this explanation does make some sense. Stories about little beings living in the woods can serve as warnings, like don't wander too far into the forest, don't go somewhere you shouldn't, be careful around places that could be dangerous. Those kinds of stories have existed in cultures all over the world for

[00:32:07] a very long time. time. So add in the fact that you have the Pukwudgie name moving through different stories, books, local histories, even paranormal shows, and then eventually the internet, and the story starts to take a physical form. And once people have a name for something, it can change the way they understand an experience. If you see a strange little figure in the woods, and you've never heard of a Pukwudgie, you might just think you saw something weird.

[00:32:36] If you've heard stories about Pukwudgies your whole life, suddenly you have a name for what you think you saw. So, it's possible that some of these sightings helped build the modern Pukwudgie legend, just as much as the legend influenced the sightings themselves. But then, that leads us to our third possibility. And this is the one that keeps the door open. What if there really is something

[00:33:04] strange out there? No pun intended. Because when you look at the number of stories that have been told over the years, there are so many similarities that are hard not to notice. And there are specific depictions that keep repeating. They talk about the unusual faces, strange eyes, long ears, quick movements, and the creatures that seem to disappear almost as quickly as they appeared. And the idea

[00:33:34] of small beings living in the wilderness isn't unique to the Pukwudgie either. Stories about little forest people, like fairies, goblins, and other strange humanoid creatures show up in cultures all over the world. The names and details are different, but the basic idea keeps popping up. Now, does that mean all of these Pukwudgie stories are describing the same creature? Maybe not.

[00:34:03] And it definitely doesn't prove that the Pukwudgie exists. But, when you have centuries of folklore mixed with modern sightings, it's at least an interesting thought. Maybe we're looking at different versions of the same kind of story that humans have been seeing for years. Maybe we are seeing ordinary things and turning them into legends. Or maybe there really are creatures living in

[00:34:32] places we don't spend much time in. And I don't know if there's a way to answer that for sure. But after looking at all of these stories, I can understand why the Pukwudgie legend has stuck around. Whether they're a warning from a legend, something people are misidentifying in the woods, or something that might actually be out there, there's still a little bit of mystery left with this one. And make sure to come back next week to hear about the land that

[00:35:02] most of this took place on. I'll give you a taste. There's aliens, Bigfoot, and ghosts. Oh my. So, what do you think? Is the Pukwudgie really out there? Be sure to follow us on Instagram at OutThereCryptids for episode posts, updates, and more. Join our community on Discord where we dive even deeper into the mysteries we explore here on

[00:35:32] the podcast. The link can be found on our Instagram. And if you're loving the show, consider supporting us on Patreon. As a patron, you'll get exclusive perks like bonus episodes, early access, and even surprises. See you next week.